Brothers Bayly

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Wednesday, 26 November 2008

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I'm not sure who wrote this, Tim or David, but I'm extremely concerned. Your postings about abortion have gotten quite scary as of late. And after reading this post, it honestly would not surprise me one bit to pick up tomorrow's paper and read that you've been arrested for following in Paul Hill's footsteps.

I'm not saying this to be snide. I love you guys. But I'm extremely worried that you're on the verge of doing something that you'll regret.

I actually thought the post was quite an accurate parallel between our present abortion machine, and Hitler's holocaust machine: killing based solely on a specific demographic trait. I just watched Ben Stine's "Expelled", and I think his efforts to trace the horrors of the holocaust back to our removal of any concept of God from science and medicine could equally well apply to the current medical and scientific establishment's role in abortion. I mean, look at Peter Singer, who holds a chair in Princeton's Philosophy and Ethics department. He thinks that we should be able to kill children up to age one if we as parents want, and yet thinks that killing an adult chimpanzee should have the same consequences as manslaughter. We live in a fallen world that fully condones and supports murder, which is sanctioned by the state, and funded by our tax dollars.

>Your postings about abortion have gotten quite scary as of late.

What we say and write concerning the slaughter in our midst should strive to make the victims as visible as those of the Holocaust. The more we see and hear and smell this grisly bloodshed, the greater our zeal will become in opposing it.

Something like "Uncle Tom's Cabin."

Um, I think it's pretty clear what course of action our host is advocating, as he's been really subtle about it and is saying it out in the open. No?

One problem with the Paul Hill position is that it usurps God's authority (as did some of the Covenanters). We each, in this society at present, are accountable for the power that God has given us to wield, for most of us that consists of our vote. For most of us our political authority does not go beyond that. We will be held responsible for the exercise of the authority we have.

If Paul, under pagan Rome which freely shed the blood of innocents, including infants, called for respect for God ordained government and not violent resistance I think it a fair conclusion that we are not justified in the use of violence in our current situation.

Beyond the exercise of political authority in the vote we also need to bear witness to the truth. Faithful witness precludes the use of euphemisms to describe this foul act and its nature. I believe the Bayly's witness in this matter honours God because it is true in an unvarnished fashion and calls for repentance which is undeniably required.

How does one accurately describe an extreme evil without the use of extreme language? Auschwitz was a different manifestation of much the same evil as abortion. A comparison is a measured and reasoned witness.

What is scarier: a post pointing out a comparison for abortion, or living in a culture where the act of infanticide is simply shrugged off? I actually don't think the comparisons the Baylys have given are accurate. Think of the number of children that have been killed and then think of the total number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. It is staggering. I'm not sure why our outrage should not be made known. I don't think we need to be polite.

Make that compromisingly polite or something like that. I just remembered "Love is not rude." 1 Corinthians 13:5. My point is that we certainly don't need to try to cushion the blow. Just clarifying...

David Gray,

Would it be usurping God's authority if you physically intervened to stop a man from raping a woman in an alley? What about shooting an intruder in your home? What about Christians joining the army and killing the enemy? I'm betting you'll say it's not, so what's the difference?

Based on your comment, I also assume you think Bonhoeffer was wrong to resist the Nazis in his day. Is that true?

>Would it be usurping God's authority if you physically intervened to stop a man from raping a woman in an alley? What about shooting an intruder in your home? What about Christians joining the army and killing the enemy? I'm betting you'll say it's not, so what's the difference?

Well for one all of those are permitted under the law...

I know you don't believe that Christian morality is coterminous with national law. When is it OK to break the law of the land in order to be obedient to God, and when is it not?

David "L", additionally, it would be logical to conclude from your post that you are currently prepared to use violence and indeed if you are not a gutless hypocrite are currently using violence to stop abortions. If so would you please provide your home address so that we can report you to the police?

Wow. Could you possibly be any more thin-skinned and hypersensitive?

I asked my questions sincerely and in good faith, without, I think, even a trace of a belligerent tone. Your juvenile response suggests that you're highly insecure about your opinions and would rather divert attention from them than explain them. And that it makes you feel good to toss out subtle insults. How old are you, anyway?

Further, it's not logical according to any definition of the term to conclude anything from my questions other than that I'm interested in learning about both sides of the issue.

Now grow up and answer my questions or stop commenting.

>Further, it's not logical according to any definition of the term to conclude anything from my questions other than that I'm interested in learning about both sides of the issue.

So you don't support the use of violence to stop abortion. Got it. Or on an issue of this nature you decline to take a position. Hmmm.

I hear too many Christian poseurs who speak of using violence to stop abortion but wouldn't dream of doing it themselves. They settle for pounding their chests. At least Paul Hill had the courage of his convictions. Do you have any convictions on this subject or is it an intellectual exercise? I'll defend my positions, based on your last comment you apparently have no positions you are willing to share.

>When is it OK to break the law of the land in order to be obedient to God, and when is it not?

Well the most obvious cases where Christians are obliged to violate the law are those where the law requires them to disobey God. For example in China where the law would require you to kill any children after your first child.

Who cares. Who bloody well cares.

Who is Obama? Who is the Democrat Party? Who are the Christians who vote for Obama and the Democrat Party?

They all want to attack poverty and other root causes that lead to abortion.

(Tongue firmly in cheek).

P.S. David Gray and David L., please be more cordial.

Color me skeptical, but I think the gift certificate idea was employed precisely in order to make more gentile and bland the face of Planned Parenthood.

That is exactly what the Nazis tried to do, the "banality of evil."

Great post, spot-on, and timely. Using words like "slaughter", "holocaust", "carnage" (I'll say "dismemberment") are not only accurate, they are properly descriptive.

No more euphemisms. Killing babies isn't clean and sterile.

Carole and Ginger were approached while at Planned Parenthood on a Thursday Morning recently by a man who came out of the clinic and showed them a receipt for a sizable donation. On it was specified "for abortions." This man also showed them his identification as a Child Protective Services representative. The same thought comes to me about the gift certificates as about that man: "May your money perish with you." I know that Peter said it in Acts 8 under different circumstances, but still it seems appropriate.

I saw an article in the HT about those gift certificates. I think it was in the Friday or Saturday paper.

Rachel,

Rather makes you wonder if he is illegally helping to cover up statutory rape, doesn't it?

Kamilla

Kamilla,

Whatever causes the hardness of our hearts; we all have drunk the lies of the world at one time or another (Psalm 73:10); it all ends up the same: bloody hands.

Call me gullible, but I believed his claim that he thought that it was better to kill them before they get abused, neglected or abandoned.

Which is more tragic: To think that it is better to kill a child simply to prevent that it is better to kill him than to take the chance that he will suffer pain, or to not even think about that child that will die, but to cover up the actions of walking-around-people?

Sometimes, I just have to make myself stop thinking about it. I am a woman of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips!

God have mercy on us!

Awfully presumptuous of this man to claim that he knows -with certainty- all the trouble that those children will face, and then to pass judgment on them, saying their death is better than their life.

Who does he think he is? God? The possibility of having a hard life is always better than a murder.

God have mercy on us, indeed.

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