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Wednesday, 02 July 2008

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Very interesting stuff. That is good stuff to know about all three of these politicians.

Thanks Tim. It is good to see God's grace working so beautifully through imperfect people, it gives us hope for ourselves.

Nice to see a politician putting his money, and his love, where his pro-life platform is.

Wow. What a great story about Sen. McCain and his wife. I have never really been enthused at the idea of McCain being the alternative to Hussein Obama's regime, but he ACTUALLY WALKS HIS TALK (well, talk is a little overstated)? New perspective...

I don't know how much of what I've read is actually true and how much is sensational - but I'm pretty sure the basic facts are correct. Carol McCain had a serious auto accident while John was a POW and she refused to let him be notified of her condition. When he returned to a wife who wasn't as thin or as pretty as when he left, he became a womanizer, finally leaving Carol for the much younger, prettier and thinner Cindy.

I'm sorry, Cindy McCain's decision to adopt may rock, but I think it's too bad she didn't also value the children who already had a mother and father and needed them both - the children of John McCain's first marriage. I just don't agree that women who take up with the husbands of other women rock.

Now I realize that if the divorce really was as bitter as it has been portrayed in some places, we would have heard more about it. However, I think the basic facts are right - that John and Cindy began their affair before he had even filed for divorce from Carol. And the Lord knows I should be the last one to hold a man's past against him - but at the same time, it would be nice if there had been some acknowldgement that they have repented, or at least recognized their sin.

I do admire Cindy's courage in just taking the two children, seemingly without question. I understand she met her husband at the airport with the words, "John, meet your new daughter." And we must remember, without David's sin there would never have been a Solomon.

We remain this odd mix of sin and grace for the duration of this life time, don't we?

Kamilla

Thanks for the bringing-us-back-down-to-earth therapy, Kamilla. You're absolutely right.

>And the Lord knows I should be the last one to hold a man's past against him - but at the same time, it would be nice if there had been some acknowldgement that they have repented, or at least recognized their sin.

I'm not a huge McCain fan but I've read an interview where he pretty openly states his behaviour in that matter was not admirable in the least. It was a lot more than I expected and more than I've seen from any other politician with a similar problem.

Tim,

Thank you.

David,

Thank you as well - I hadn't read that. Yes, it is good to hear and not what we've heard from some recent politicians.

Kamilla

You know, in a strange way, I like McCain more than I've liked a Republican candidate for many years. He's got a large enough ego that he'll do what he thinks best, and that may be the best we can hope for in these United States today.

Did I say that?

Maybe everyone already knows this, but McCain is in favor of government-funded, embryonic stem-cell research. The quote I heard as his justification for this research was: "The Bible tells us we should heal the sick." His position sickens me in light of the direction other countries are taking. England recently lifted a ban on experimentation with human/animal hybrids; there's not even a medical pretense stated. And savior siblings, clones of diseased sibling to be used for parts, is also now legal in the great land of Britain. My conscience is greatly troubled about casting a vote for any politician who does not strike a hard line on the dignity of all human life.

>My conscience is greatly troubled about casting a vote for any politician who does not strike a hard line on the dignity of all human life.

As well it should be, dear sister.

Thanks for linking to our blog.

About McCain's first wife. She was divorced and had two children when McCain married her. I read an article about it and she is not bitter and thinks John McCain is a great guy. In fact, her son (whom John McCain adopted works in an executive position in Cindy McCain's family business that she inherited.)

As a Catholic we probably would say the first marriage was invalid because his wife was previously married. Be that as it may - it is very hard to figure all of this out. Obviously, he isn't perfect.

About embryonic stem cell research - he voted for using frozen embryo's not cloning (obviously both are horrible - but you have to remember Orin Hatch who was an early hero of the pro-life movement also voted for using frozen embryo's - a real disappointment to the pro-life movement at the time so this could have confused McCain). McCain has since met with pro-life leaders like Father Pavone and Senator Brownback and they have the distinct impression that he is reconsidering his position on the use frozen embryo's in research in light of the recent wonderful developments in adult stem cell research.

I personally believe that there is a lot of hope for McCain - other than the vote on frozen embryo's he has a 30 year record of voting consistently pro-life.

One more point that has not been made regarding McCain's divorce is that it happened after he had spent numerous years in the Hanoi Hilton as a POW. A great many POW's were divorced after their return, as they struggled emotionally and psychologically. It doesn't justify sin, but it does warrant compassion and understanding.

John McCain said, "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."Carol McCain would later say: "The breakup of our marriage was not caused by my accident or Vietnam or any of those things. I don't know that it might not have happened if John had never been gone. I attribute it more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else." Stand up dude.

I think we make a mistake when we try to judge someone whom we don't know whether they have sufficiently repented or confessed of their sins. Just a thought.

McCain's divorce from Carol is troubling to me... but if the man acknowledges the sin and has repented... well, he's been forgiven, praise be to God.

What about Cindy, has she given any public explanation of how she regards her behavior in the pre-divorce affair?

The embryonic stem cell issue is important, and hopefully McCain will take a more consistent stance there.

However, the main issue for me is whether McCain will approach national syncretism (the American Civic Religion) in the same way as Bush; that is, endorsing and participating in it. I don't mind incrementalism in the rooting out of idolatry (if McCain doesn't take down all the high places I won't hold it against him), but I cannot stand "incrementalism" in repenting of idolatry that one is personally involved in (there is Namaan and the house of Rimmon, but the application would have to be made).

Put another way, reading this post is something like me living in ancient Israel and finding out that King Ahab had once come across an orphan boy being robbed and beaten by vicious bandits, put his own person on the line in fighting off the thieves, taken life-threatening injuries in the process, and adopting the orphan to take care of him. Hearing that would move me deeply, and bring about a profound respect for a man I had thought more thoroughly wicked... but until he drops the idolatry, the enmity is still there because it's still there between him and God.

Well, we shall see. I think I agree with you, Tim, that McCain presents more hope than the last 3 presidents at least. That's not a high bar to pass, but it's something to be thankful for.

Richard,

I would agree with you if this were anyone other than a man seeking to lead our country. Especially given that the family and marriage are very much under attack. In that case, McCain's private sin and how he subsequently dealt with it are very much public matters.

I thank the other posters for the information about McCain's acknowledgement that he had not acted honourably.

Kamilla

But, Kamilla, how do you judge whether and how McCain has subsequently and satisfactorily dealt with his sins? We are all in the last part of Romans 7 in this life--justified sinners, an odd mixture of sin and grace, as you put it. And if this is what you are looking for in a political leader, aren't you mixing the two kingdoms here?

Richard,

Well, some of us don't agree with what we've heard described as "two kingdoms" teaching.

On the other hand, if one grants that it is legitimate to have a secular democracy that does not acknowledge the lordship of Jesus or govern by the standard of what He wants, then it is reasonable that one should not require that the elected servants of that democracy to govern their own lives according to Jesus' standards.

As a side note, I have no way of 100% verifying that McCain's repentence is genuine or merely a political expedient. However, I am disposed to be charitable to anyone making a public admission of wrong (however motivated, it still hurts in various ways), and other evidence like the adoptions mentioned above lead me to think that McCain is a man of enough integrity that the "political expedient" explanation is unlikely.

Blessings,
Keith

Keith,
Thanks for what you write. I guess what I'm not seeing is that--if we can't keep the law, Jesus' standards, that we get into all sorts of trouble if we expect our leaders to do so. The more I live, the more I realize how far short of Jesus' standards I fall. And the more grateful I am of the Gospel.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about McCain.
Blessings,
Richard

It's interesting and admirable, I suppose, that McCain does not blame the war for his divorce. But five or six years (I can't remember how many exactly) being separated from your wife and being tortured in a POW camp can hardly help having a pretty significant effect on a person. Again, please understand that I am not justifying his sin at all, just calling for some compassion for a man who had been through an extraordinarily long and harrowing experience.

And I think the Reverend Phillips is making my point on the dangers of judging others--and the sincerity of their confessions and repentance, etc., when we really do not know them; it seems to me that should be the role of the elders of his church. I think this is what happens when we confuse things heavenly with things earthly.

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