Brothers Bayly

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Saturday, 06 October 2007

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I made the observation several months ago, elsewhere, that there seemed to be a growing trend of "metrosexual" pastors with preaching shows on those twin embarrassments of "Christian" television programming, Daystar and TBN. One looks like he wears eyeliner, another wears shirts untucked with no tie, and yet another obviously spends more time and product on his hair than I do (and it's not because he's working on a bad comb-over).

I'm not about to swim the Tiber, but EWTN just keeps looking better and better - programs teaching young people how to lead a pure/chaste life, programs on abortion and Dale's program on Chesterton. Although, I have trouble watching the program on abortion because they have a "world abortion" counter in the corner of the screen showing how many abortions occur in the world during the time the program is aired.


I wonder, though, if a new reformation doesn't have to start with Worship? All the solid expository preaching in the world probably in't going to turn things around if the worship that leads up to it is so much soft and fuzzy dreck.

Methinks we're in trouble,


Kamilla

Pr. Tim,

Lady Thatcher -- at least at a distance -- resembles a feminine figure who does not suffer fools, found in Scripture in places like Proverbs 1 or 9. I submit that fools would find Lady Wisdom just as "iron-ish" as they found Lady Thatcher, and for the same reasons.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, appears to have a problem pithily presented by Peggy Noonan back in June:

"Hillary Clinton doesn’t have to prove she’s a man. She has to prove she’s a woman.

"She doesn’t have to prove to people that she’s tough enough or aggressive enough to be commander in chief. She doesn’t have to show she could and would wage a war. She has to prove she has normal human warmth, a normal amount of give, of good nature, that she is not, at bottom, grimly combative and rather dark.

"This is the woman credited with starting and naming the War Room. Her staff has nicknamed her 'The Warrior.' Get in her way and she’d squish you like a bug. This has been her reputation for 20 years. And it is her big problem. People want a president to be strong but not hard.

"A longtime supporter of Mrs. Clinton’s spoke with candor some months back of her friend’s predicament. 'We’re back where we were in ‘92–likability. Nothing has changed.'

"Back then, when the Clintons were newly famous, their consultants were alarmed to find the American people did not believe Hillary was a mother. They thought she was a person with breasts in a suit. She had a briefcase and a latte and was late for the meeting, but no way she did she have a child."

Read the whole thing here: http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010239

I think Kamilla is spot on about worship. An effective reformation must begin with worship, precisely because evangelicals' worship is the ever-expanding beach head for the feminist invasion of the churches. What expository preaching might offer with the right hand is swept away by Jesus-is-my-boyfriend choruses, droned into everyone's heads by 50 repetitions with a bridging key-change between iterations 49 and 50.

Dear Father Bill:

Thanks for passing on the Noonan quotes. Spot on.

David

I hate to belittle Lady Thatcher, as it did appear that she did do a lot of good despite what I'd admit is an un-Biblical position. However, I must wonder if the "Iron Lady" persona and Hillary's similar mood is simply what happens when a lady tries to take on these roles; they get distorted in translation--much like the "sex roles" played by homosexuals.

Loved the last line about the shepherds and the wolf, by the way. It wonderfully illustrates the reality of grim duty out of love.

Is it just me, or has this thread changed names more than once?

More than twice, Barbara. In fact, thrice. But with the present title I've returned to what I'd done at first and thought to be too raucous. Changed my mind.

Sometimes, a slight change in title causes a huge jump in readership, although this particularly post has been well-read from the beginning. You wouldn't know it from the comments but I know it from watching the stats.

So, if you ever want to suggest a title change, let me know and you too can get in on the action, too. The price of computers is infinite tweaking.

I'm a bit miffed that such a fine heavy metal band like Iron Maiden is used for the title of an article about women pastors and such. Iron Maiden rocks; women pastors don't.

Pittsburgh Steelers and Iron Maiden.

...all I need to know about you Brandon. How did you ever marry an opera singer? LOL

Love to you both.

Well, of course, Silly, a change in the title will cause a huge jump in readership, if many of your readers are like me, blonde (emotionally speaking), and think, upon seeing the new title, "Oh goody, something new to read!" and then click on the "read more" link. Slippery way to increase readership among the gullible, if you ask me

Archie: You know, I often find myself wondering how I managed to marry such a wonderful lady! A redneck from northern Indiana farmland marrying an attractive, intelligent young lady from an upscale suburb of Pittsburgh. She definitely has an improving influence on me. Sometimes I'll do something that's normal for me, and she'll stare at me in wonder of the uncouthness of my behavior. God's certainly been gracious.

So who is feigning ignorance at the sin, the Biblical pastors or the churches where everything is okay because it's our modern culture, men are pigs, and gender is irrelevant to roles?

Dear Barbara, I found out where all the readers were coming from, which caused me to rejigger the thing to their needs. So I did a bunch of editing, added 150 words, a pull quote, and another new title. It's not that I want to snooker people into re-reading it. Rather, it was all about (ahem!) contextualizing.

Brandon, as a fellow Hoosier from NW Indiana, I feel compelled to remind you that there is a world of difference between an Iron Lady and an Iron Maiden--but that the Iron Maiden is an apt metaphor for what is done to Biblical sexuality by feminism. It even seems to be a relatively modern invention, just like feminism, and apparently wasn't used much until the 20th Century.

Sorry, Eddie.

The Iron Maiden is a relatively modern invention? I saw a horror film which used one once. Still have the willies whenever I think of one. Perhaps it is an apt metaphor for feminism in the Christ's church after all?

Kamilla

At least according to Wiki, and the article was extensively footnoted. Evidently, it was a 17th century invention in Nuremberg (also apropos, methinks), based on a "coat of shame" used to humiliate (but not perforate) ladies of the night. Add the spikes and make it a whole body thing, and you've got your "Eisener Maedchen."

Interestingly, there appear to be no credible examples of the use of it until the 20th Century.

Thankfully. And apropos.

Actually, the feminists in the UK hated Mrs Thatcher (she was never known as "Ms"). The reason why is that the pro-family, pro-capitalist values she stood for are the near antithesis of the socialism advocated by many (not all) feminists. She was a good friend and supporter of your President Reagan, don't forget. Women's leadership in civil society is not quite the same thing as women's leadership in the Body of Christ.

That said, what are you PCA types going to do if Hillary does become President end of next year? ;-)

[Ross in the UK]

As a feminist child during the '70s, I always appreciated and was inspired by Prime Minister Thatcher's example. I have always interpreted "The Iron Lady" designation as a supreme compliment, rather than mockery, an aknowledgment of both her strength ("iron") and the fact that she is a woman ("lady"). Obviously I don't know the particular context you are recalling in the New York Times, but I recall even the liberal journalists on 60 Minutes using the phrase in admiration.

Of course, many (or perhaps most) feminists did not love Prime Minister Thatcher as I did. But I don't think feminist dislike of Thatcher had anything to do with her persona, but rather with her policies. I would expect most mainstream feminists today to defend the right of Thatcher and Hillary Clinton to adopt a strong, firm, "manly" leadership style, even while criticizing these women's policies.

As a feminist, I agree that it is ludicrous to expect that women can be assigned a submissive role at home and then be taken seriously in leadership positions outside the home.

God assigned it, and it's not a "role" but intrinsic to feminine sexuality as He created woman, Eve.

Tim,

"God assigned it, and it's not a "role" but intrinsic to feminine sexuality as He created woman, Eve.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! That has long been one of my chief complaints against the view that calls itself complementarianism. Ophelia is a role, Desdemona is a role, Wife is a relationship. If it is intrinsic to our being, then it CANNOT be a role - as a role is something that is taken up and put back down again.

Kamilla

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